RMB: Yes, of course.
RN: We have loads of prolonged discussions, especially with
artists who are not used to working with us and who think that
Documenta is like a Biennale. Then you have to go through
this process of dissent with the artist. What we are doing a lot
is telling artists about each other. To create a context in which
they can really think about what the work is doing and how it
is going to be compared, because a lot of artists, when they
think of Documenta, are only thinking, ‘How large can I make
the work so that it will stick out next to all this other work?’ The
intelligent artists get it. They get it really quickly.
AR: I s your creation of a context the most important distinction
between Documenta, a biennial and an art fair, then?
RMB: Ye s .
RN: I think that is also one of the reasons why Art Basel and others
are including semi-curated shows.
RMB: But in Art Unlimited there is a total absence of ideas. some tourist just looking at the sculpture. That does not make so
much sense to us.
RN: Yeah, but I think they realise there is a need for this. That people
want that. They want substance. They don’t just want surface. RMB: E specially with the building, the people are pretty poor and also
Protestant and have an ambivalent relationship to Documenta, which
AR: So how much of your time is spent looking for money to fund is fine. It would be horrible if everyone embraced it wholeheartedly.
the various things you want to do with Documenta? They are troubled by the fact that you start building in a central
place when you have not properly financed the building yet. This is
RN: I would say his time 90% and my time 50%. It’s difficult, as potentially a scandal, because it’s something they cannot associate
institutions such as Documenta are rebuilt each time the show with a sense of moral responsibility.
comes around. There are no regular departments.
RN: And people want to be taken up, taken care of. They depend on
RMB: There is no marketing, and in that respect the show is quite Documenta for all kinds of activities. There are about 200 artists
anachronistic. But also incredibly flexible. If you were to have a living in Kassel, even one Japanese person who moved there
CEO who is selling everything from umbrellas to my presence because they thought it was an art centre and stayed there. This
at dinner tables, then we would be in a different situation. is not visible during off times. Once Documenta happens, people
start developing their own activities – there are a thousand theatre
AR: Would you like it to be like that? groups suddenly doing their pieces at the same time as Documenta,
but if you argue with people about why they don’t do this kind of
RMB: No, I actually enjoy this adventure and the spareness of the thing in between Documentas, they say that they need the aura, the
situation. And the fact that this element of improvisation is perspective of the world.
so visible also allows us to stay close to art. If we were to go
corporate, I think we would lose the certain madness element RMB: But they ar e being had, it’s the funniest thing. Friends ask local
you expect from art. artists, “What are you doing during Documenta?” and they cannot
say, “Nothing”, they have to come up with something.
AR: H ow does Kassel feel about the fact that you’re not basing the
show in disused warehouses – in Kassel as an urban centre? AR: What are you going to do after Documenta?
RMB: I don’ t think they care. The issue of urbanism is exhausted in the RN: R oger will go back to painting. Can I say that you have already got
artworld. That’s our feeling, at least. To create another image someone to do a show for you?
or experience for looking at art is usually greeted with a sigh
of relief. RMB: But that was after several pints of beer!
RN: What we are saying is that we are more interested in production RN: They offered him a show! Ha ha ha.
than in representation. We have been working with people
in Kassel for a year and a half now, meeting every month, Documenta 12 is at Kassel, 16 June – 23 September. Documenta 12 Magazine
discussing the subjects, inviting the artists. It is more working No. 1: Modernity?, edited by Georg Schöllhammer, Roger M. Buergel and
with the mentalities than putting a sculpture somewhere and Ruth Noack, is published by Taschen
nine.linthree.lin ARTREVIEW
p 92-93 Documenta 12 AR May07.in93 93 5/4/07 13:50:19
Page 1 Page 2 Page 3 Page 4 Page 5 Page 6 Page 7 Page 8 Page 9 Page 10 Page 11 Page 12 Page 13 Page 14 Page 15 Page 16 Page 17 Page 18 Page 19 Page 20 Page 21 Page 22 Page 23 Page 24 Page 25 Page 26 Page 27 Page 28 Page 29 Page 30 Page 31 Page 32 Page 33 Page 34 Page 35 Page 36 Page 37 Page 38 Page 39 Page 40 Page 41 Page 42 Page 43 Page 44 Page 45 Page 46 Page 47 Page 48 Page 49 Page 50 Page 51 Page 52 Page 53 Page 54 Page 55 Page 56 Page 57 Page 58 Page 59 Page 60 Page 61 Page 62 Page 63 Page 64 Page 65 Page 66 Page 67 Page 68 Page 69 Page 70 Page 71 Page 72 Page 73 Page 74 Page 75 Page 76 Page 77 Page 78 Page 79 Page 80 Page 81 Page 82 Page 83 Page 84 Page 85 Page 86 Page 87 Page 88 Page 89 Page 90 Page 91 Page 92 Page 93 Page 94 Page 95 Page 96 Page 97 Page 98 Page 99 Page 100 Page 101 Page 102 Page 103 Page 104 Page 105 Page 106 Page 107 Page 108 Page 109 Page 110 Page 111 Page 112 Page 113 Page 114 Page 115 Page 116 Page 117 Page 118 Page 119 Page 120 Page 121 Page 122 Page 123 Page 124 Page 125 Page 126 Page 127 Page 128 Page 129 Page 130 Page 131 Page 132 Page 133 Page 134 Page 135 Page 136 Page 137 Page 138 Page 139 Page 140 Page 141 Page 142 Page 143 Page 144 Page 145 Page 146 Page 147 Page 148 Page 149 Page 150 Page 151 Page 152 Page 153 Page 154 Page 155 Page 156 Page 157 Page 158 Page 159 Page 160 Page 161 Page 162 Page 163 Page 164 Page 165